Pedal and muscle.

[piaggu]

__________

[Jonathan599]

Originally posted by Paul Newbury:
Does the size of the muscles in your legs have anything to do with how fast we can play our pedals?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, just as the size of the muscles in a guitarist's arms and hands have nothing to do with how fast they can play scales. Conditioning is obviously an issue with respect to endurance and power, for drummers, however. The best way to condition the relevant muscles for these latter purposes is through regular practise.

[JoesMechanic]

I guess I'd have to disagree with this to a certain point. Only in regards to the "design" dept of our bodies. Looking at what makes certain people more apt to doing certain things would dictate that their personal bodies designs are more suited for one purpose or another. Motor functions, muscle groups, bone curvatures, etc. Mine would be the perfect design for getting fat and eating. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I've been on a hiatus regarding excercise for roughly the past 2.5 years now. Along with gaining some 70lbs, I've noticed that my playing is not where it used to be. I get winded, my muscles take a while to warm up, things just aren't working the way they used to, etc. I would agree with Lang that excercise would only help your playing, especially if you've taken things to the extreme that I have over the past few years. Drumming is MUCH more physical than most instruments to play, so I think staying in shape would only make it easier to play in the long run. I can remember being 175 lbs and belting out stuff that surprised me.

Talked with Weckl this morning. Said he feels like he's played in a football game with the Raiders from the Stern gigs. Lots of blowing in that band. I guess even guys with perfect technique feel the ill effects of drumming on the body.

My personal take on the muscle size thing is that you've got to have "some" muscle. Drumming is more like basketball or kickboxing. It's an endurance sport. And the better conditioned your muscles are to do things for long periods of time, the better off you are. Bodybuilders don't seem to accel in those area's. But then you get your freaks of nature like Cobham, Curt Covington, Dennis Chambers.

Jonathan.... take a look at Holdsworths hands the next time you see him play. The dudes got big beefy hands. Nothing you'd expect to see on a guitar player. Makes the guitar necks look small for his hands. Reminds me of a big man choking the frail neck of a chicken.

[palmerlouie]

its partly to do with muscle building and partly to do with training the foot to be flexible enough to follow the flow/rebound of the pedal.

but - too many people seem to be looking for that easy route or special "method" - they dont exsist.

i have been working on some of thomas' stuff for over a year now and the results are great and for technique a lot of what he says is spot on and i can see the technique and ability growing in me. it IS about a work out if you want to have great technique. even horacio hernandez said something about playing double infront of the TV watching a 90 minute football game - he said if you did that you'd have the best doubles ever!

its about training. just watch the zoro or rodney holmes clips where they are at the pads kits - terribly weak technique.

i played a show last night and we all really went for it and it was quite loud and aggressive rock/blues but with solos etc so it was pretty full on. to play for 1hr LOUD(cos the sound man was shit) and play interesting stuff - you have to have very good technique. i found it hard.

technqiue has nothing to do with speed or chops - for me its about motion, projection and sound.

[matricks]

Physics, physics, physics!!! How well you play a pedal is dictated by how well you use the physics involved with it. The amount of strength that one has will have little to do with how fast you can manipulate the bounce of the beater, footboard, etc. Look at a hummingbird and a buffalo, which do you think can manipulate a quicker response due to their physiology? Strength DOES play a factor in that endurance that Weckl talks about when playing with Stern, but has nothing to do with speed. If one wants to play fast, develop muscles that can work the physics of a pedal; if you want to be able to play fast for long periods of time, muscles will play a factor; however, not bulky muscles, lean and trim ones are the ones we are talking about. Thomas' playing is reflective of the fact that he needs those muscles because he is a very physical player? his heads look like the surface of the moon when he is done! JoJo or Mangini don't need those big muscles because they don't play that way.

[Jonathan599]

Originally posted by JoesMechanic:
Jonathan.... take a look at Holdsworths hands the next time you see him play. The dudes got big beefy hands. Nothing you'd expect to see on a guitar player. Makes the guitar necks look small for his hands. Reminds me of a big man choking the frail neck of a chicken.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JoesMechanic, I didn't mean to say that drumming isn't a physical activity. I agree with you; it clearly is, and you're right that being in shape is an asset with respect to drumming (as it is to many other activities). However, that doesn't mean that "stronger muscles" = "faster hands".

Your description of Holdworth's hands makes me think about Anthony Jackson -- now that guy has got to have the beefiest (sp?) hands around! Beefier than Holdsworth's hands, perhaps? Maybe I should I start a "Who Has The Biggest Hands?" thread! [img]wink.gif[/img] Just kidding.

Cheers.

[ashio nz]

Excellent post Louie. I've also noticed this when playing, like 'how can I get the best out of my instrument without knackering my body?'
Applies to hands, feet, back & neck muscles especially. Surely posture is part of technique? And so is the degree of flexibility in our limbs? One of my earliest drum teachers stressed the importance of going easy on the hands & body by playing 'correctly' - maximum effort, minimum fuss!

For me, technique ALLOWS me to last for any given period of time behind the drums. It's a means to an end, not the means itself.

[peter c]

I think it's a combination of how muscles
respond, uniformaly, to general exercise
and then how they respond to isolated
exercise, as in what we do.

Rather than look at Billy's arms, look
at his hands. VERY developed. Look at the
padded muscle in between the thumb and
index fingers, as an example.

French-grip players have larger muscles,
here, whereas German-grip players have
more developed forearms.

I figure as long as you are developing
the muscles truly associated, with your
activity, you are doing the right thing
but that's hard to know.

On don't forget the sticks out there,
like Narada, Terry and even Steve Gadd.

They have developed the right muscles
but you would never know it.

In general, of course, exercise is a
good thing for everyone.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 19, 2005 01:20 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[Jean-Paul]

I agree with Palmerlouie. What I like about TL is that he takes a "simple" excercise and does it for 15 minutes. Suddenly this simple excercise becomes very difficult. You have to go beyond that point to build up muscles which are necessary to play fast but also to last a long gig. Play singles or doubles and put on the metronome and play the same excercise for 15 minutes. The next day you put the metronome 10bpm faster and do the same exercise. Take a sheet to fill in your tempo's and excercises. Besides this I practice also the same exercise heel up and heel down. It really works.